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Kayak for a big guy

K

Kermode

Paddler
Joined
Jun 8, 2007
Messages
236
Talking with a friend of mine today, he'd love to take up kayaking but he's a big guy & I don't think he's been getting much help. I think he said he's 285lbs & about 6'-2" shoe size probably a 12+
Any help on make/ models of kayaks he could consider & try out would be most helpful. He said most of what he'd looked at topped out at around 230lbs. I'm sure there are models out there for the larger guy. any advice gratefully received. Thanks in advance. We're based in BC Lower Mainland.
 
some to check out:

  • Atlantis Titan 18-3 x 2-0 x 1-2, ckpt 31x17, vol 129.6 gal or 490 litres
    Current Designs Solstice GT Titan 17-7 x 2-0 x 1-2 , ckpt 35.5x17.5, , max load 475#
    Delta 18: 18-5.5 x 1-11.5 x 1-0, ckpt 32x18, vol 16.12 cubicft or 456 litres
    Eddyline Denali 15-3 x 2-0.5 x 1-1, ckpt 35x18.5, vol 13.44 cuft or 381 litres
    Eddyline Nighthawk(discontinued) 17-6x2-1.5x1-2.5, ckpt 35x19
    P&H Capella173: 17-3x1-11x 1-1.5 , ckpt 34x20, vol 101.7gals or 385 litres
    Wilderness Systems Tempest 180 Pro: 18-0 x 1-11 x 1-0 i/s, ckpt 34or36?x20

One shouldn't necessarily trust the deck height and ckpt size figures - as you don't know always if they're to inside or top of coaming hts and to inside ckpt or outside ckpt dimensions. Figures often lie! (or is it the other way 'round . . .)
 
Kermode said:
He said most of what he'd looked at topped out at around 230lbs. I'm sure there are models out there for the larger guy. any advice gratefully received.
Click to expand...

Mick's suggestions with cockpit sizes are an excellent start, IMO. For a taller paddler, getting into the boat 'butt first' can be difficult, so a longer cockpit can be helpful. The deck height in front of the cockpit along with the beam will limit the foot/boot size that will fit, if that's an issue. BTW, there's a significant difference in clearance when wearing 'booties' vs neoprene boots with a sole (like Chotas) vs sneakers/wellies. If going to a boat tryout, I'd suggest taking paddling footwear.

As far as 'recommended load' for the boat, IMO having the boat a bit 'overloaded' is not a major problem. (Much worse, IMO is a too-light load, letting the boat 'sit on top' of the water and blow around.)
Looking at the specs for one of my favourite boats - Mariner Express (discontinued) - shows numbers for 150# and 250# loads, and for both conditions gives the lbs per inch immersion which is the important number. If you're going to 'overload' a boat, look for a design that has a higher lb/in number. Unfortunately not all manufacturers provide full specs.

Is your friend looking for a boat for day-paddling or long trips? A boat loaded up with gear, food and water and a lighter paddler will be as heavy as your friend on a day paddle, I think. So I wouldn't worry overly about the recommended weight numbers, and just get a boat that 'fits' for now. Most paddlers don't stick with their first boat forever anyway..... :D
 
Kermode,

John's remarks about ratings for boat capacity are spot on. I think I overloaded my old Eddyline Wind Dancer by a 100 lbs, regularly, for extended multiday trips, especially when carrying water for a week.

The other consideration for your plus sized buddy would be his waist and hip measurements. He will need to squeeze into a few boats to get a feel for what seats are large enough and comfy enough for long periods of sitting. As another fellow who is large in the cockpit region, I eventually went with a custom carved minicell seat to replace the stock seat. While yarding out the old seat may be intimidating, carving a custom seat is not that bad. I think Redfish Kayaks in Port Townsend will make a seat blank tailored to the hull, so all you need to do is carve for a primo tush fit, and off you go!

A minicell seat is the height of comfort and security. Kinda like one piece jammies when you were a four year old.
 
Mick, John, Dave... thank you so much for your input. :clap: I'm sure my friend will greatly appreciate your advice. I think the thing is to get out there & try some of them out.
John: I think initially he'd be looking at daytrips but we all know how initial thought can change, so not sure on that one yet.
Mick: am I correct in thinking that (rule of thumb) 1 litre volume equates to an acceptable load of 1lb. (a 400L boat will support 400lb?) or am I wrong on that.
Dave: nice to know that overloading doesn't necessarily mean dangerous.
Dave: Yes I think physical dimensions/ seat size etc for cockpits is a big consideration, & therefore he needs to try some of the boats suggested.
 
Kermode,

One Liter of increased volume equated to a load increment of one pound may be a good rule of thumb, inasmuch as one pound is roughly 500 grams, which is the mass of half a Liter of water. Thus, the waterline at maximum rated load would be roughly, very roughly, halfway between the keel and the top of the deck. Other variables affect the safe load limit. Some manufacturers rate conservatively, some do not, for one. Truly, one should check this out before committing to a long trip.

Note that placement of the load can drastically affect stability, with heavy items stowed on deck being a real bugaboo. People do it. I have, but only lightweight stuff. I know a fellow who has a massive upper body who always complains about the poor initial stability of kayaks. Same problem. Folks with heavier hips find their boats more stable than slim hipped devils do.

As others have said, a loaded boat has greater initial stability than an empty one, because the hull gets wider ... up to a point. Then, as you load a boat, the reverse is true. This would be extreme overloading, in my experience. Snorkels advised at that point. :wink: :D
 
I think it's a great rule of thumb, but with the provisos that Dave has just stated.
If you think of the cross sectional shape of a kayak as a flattened ellipse or circle, it makes some sense that the max load would be in the region of the max beam (ie half the volume displacement which approximates 1litre for 1 pound). Kayaks are typically are more flattened and wider up towards the deck to give a little stability and reduce windage so the previous sentence is not exactly true, but the 'rule' still holds fairly well even for performance kayaks where the decks are almost awash , although volume in litres does dip below the weight in pounds for the paddler and just his equipmt (a playbt of mine is litres/pounds=85% - not too bad, sorta equal). The extreme would be a squirtboat where the litre numbers would approach half that of the number of pounds.
 
Hi Kermode, I'm about the same size as your friend. Here are a few models I really liked of the ones I've tested. Everyone's taste will be different though.

Delta 18.5, this was my first boat based on advice from here. Very stable, comfortable and a decent deck height (not too high). I've taken lots of beginners out in this boat and been a beginner in it myself. Where this boat really shines is when you take it camping. The hatch openings are as huge as the hull volume. Even a big guy can load this boat up for an expedition and have a decent waterline.

Tahe Reval HV, soon to be available in a PE model. Very easy boat to get in and out of, handled great. I'd like to pick up the new plastic model once it's available to replace my Delta. Something a little smaller that I can run into rocks.

Boreal Designs Baffin, C3, P3 or new T3. I demoed the C3. The long cockpit in this boat was an amazing fit for me, very sporty feel between the seat, thigh braces and low deck. The seat is amazing how it locks you in place with the saddlehorn at the front. This would be a great day boat for your friend since the decks are low and it sits a little lower. Not as stable as the two mentioned above but worth a look down the road.

Sterling Grand Illusion, not a beginners boat due to the price but has enough stability for one. Easy butt first entry in the cockpit, nice thigh braces to lock you in and a decent waterline. Tracks well enough without a skeg but turns amazingly. One of the only rough water boats for big guys. If I lived closer to the ocean...

Anyway when I'm looking at boats now I look for: Cockpit sized for a Seals 1.7 skirt, seat mounted at the back of the cockpit (for easy butt first leg entry), a minimum of 400 liters volume and a roughly 22.5"+ beam. This seems to be where I start to get a decent waterline and stability. While I like the "in the water" feel of a loaded boat it robs a lot of speed. I demoed the GI in Victoria and the Reval and Baffin in Ladysmith in case you have trouble locating them. The Delta should be an easy one to find for rental.
 
Dave, Mick thanks for your comments re volume/ weight, much appreciated.
Big&Small thanks for your input & suggestions for my friend to look at. I have a Delta 15.5 (I'm 6' & 240lbs...) wasn't quite that big when I bought it :lol: but I really liked that big Delta, it was soooo easy to paddle.
My buddy is checking in here so he'll see your recommendations & thanks for the insight as to what you look for in a boat to fit you. He has also said he intends to take some lessons too. Thanks again for the help & advice guys.
 
Just noticed some of the other Wilderness System boats have good ckpt front deck ht and ckpt openings, might be worth checking out:
WS Zephyr 155 Pro: 15-6 x 22.5 x 16 , ckpt 35.5x19
WS Zephyr 160 : 16-0x 23 x 17, ckpt 35.5x19
WS Tsunami 175 Pro: 17-6x24x15.75, ckpt 36x20
 
I'm 6-1 and 240, I paddle a Tempest 180 Pro and it works great. There isn't an excess of foot room but there is enough for my size twelves. I think this boat would work for a beginners.

A boat that doesn't get any attention is the Current Designs Infinity. It will definitely fit the big guys. It has quite a high front deck and there is lots of foot room. Beginners would find it tippy though.

Barry
 
Barry, for the WS Tempest Pro, could you confirm the inside to inside cockpit dimensions and maybe the inside ht at the front of the ckpt?
(it's listed at 18-0 x 1-11 x 1-0 i/s, ckpt 34or36?x20)
For the dimensions of the CD Infinity = 17- 9 x 1-10 x 1-1.5, ckpt 31.75 x 16.5 do you think it's just getting on the edge of too small for the i/s ckpt dimensions? (that just might be my prejudice as I believe that a large size ckpt should allow one to insert the feet after sitting down)

[ I can never understand why the minscule greenland ckpt is called an ocean ckpt, it is most aptly called a 'puddle ckpt'; an ocean ckpt should be a huge ckpt - but that's more of my prejudices showing]
 
Mick

Measuring kayaks is apparently as imprecise as measuring humans.

If you measure the length of the combing outside-to-outside it is a little over 35 in. but a useless dimension. The actual length of the cockpit is 33 1/2 in. inside-to-inside. So that is the length of the actual cockpit. It gets better or worse. Subtract 4-6 in. since the seat back is forward of the back of the cockpit. The width of the cockpit opening is 17 3/4 in. The hip pads inside of that but they can be worked with. The dimension to the underside of the deck at the front of the cockpit is 13 in.

For what it's worth I can't get into a kayak seat first then bring my feet in without a little twisting around.

Barry
 
heh heh, if I could rephrase your words:
"Measuring kayaks is apparently as imprecise as 'measuring' humans wish it to be"

And ditto on the uselessness of outside coaming lip dimensions when concerned about fitting inside the kayak.

33.5” clear inside is a fairly good dimension for larger paddlers, but it’s kind of annoying if the published figures are 34” or 36” clear inside as every fraction really matters here when judgning if one can juuuuust fit in well. And as you say, it also depends where (or how rigidly attached) the seat or back/band is placed.

Because it is so critically important for stability to get one’s CG low AND it is so critically useful to be able to easily insert one’s legs after sitting in the ckpt – say rescues and quick entries, I would think that if one is getting a kayak with a typical ckpt, why not have one that is easy to enter?

Personally if I had a boat (composite construction reqd), unless there’s good reason (I have one that I won’t do it to for aesthetic reasons & another I haven’t got around to), I’d hack out a coaming and resize - as it’s relatively easy to do. To my mind that may open the possibility of boats that might be ok otherwise (and make the change). . . or conversely , it might be possible if purchasing new (and composite), to get a custom sized coaming without too much extra expense or bother.

I just cannot see the point in having a smallish standard ckpt that is extremely tight or impossible to enter (after sitting) versus that of an infinitesimally larger standard cockpit that makes it easy to enter – it’s just so much more usable and safe.
 
Surprised that no one has recommended a Telkwa. I always thought of those boats as big boats for big guys.
 
mick_allen said:
Surprised that no one has recommended a Telkwa
Click to expand...
duh . . . . stats:
Nimbus Telkwa 18-3x2-0.5x1-2.5, ckpt 32.5 x 17.5, vol 470 litres
Click to expand...

Obviously for a "Big Guy Kayak" we are talking about the Telkwa HV, which has 14.75" deck height compared to the Telkwa with 14".

Stats are comparable to the Delta 18.5, completely different kayak, yes, but the bare numbers are close.


As a small person I shut up and go back to my low volume boat... :oops:
 
Hey Kermode,

I am 6'7" and 290. I had a Necky Pinta as my first boat which was delightfully stable and a great starter. I am currently paddling a Current Design "Isle". Very nice boat and a fun paddle. It has a otn of storage and is relatively fast for a big boat. I do find that because my center of gravity is pretty high, it can be a bit twitchy when it is unloaded. The only other drawback that I have, it that the back deck is really high and prevents me from trying any rolls that require a layback.

My "little"brother is 6'8" and much lighter. He paddles a CD "Solstice GT Titan" and just loves it.

Just my $0.02. Good luck on your search!

~Pat
 
Isle stats:
Current Design 'Isle' : 18-0 x 2-0 x 1-2, ckpt 34.75 x 18.75
 
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