When does a Trip become an Expedition?

[Dan_Millsip]

I had a discussion with a friend today about expeditions -- specifically, what defines an expedition? When does a "trip" become an "expedition"? Does paddling around Vancouver Island qualify as an "expedition"? Does a two week trip qualify? Does a three week trip qualify? Is an expedition defined by distance? Or perhaps difficulty? Or maybe a combination of factors?

I've got some ideas but would like to hear other people's thoughts on this.

*****

 

[rider]

Wavelength discussed this sometime ago, I think the article was called "marketing,expedition's final frontier" or something like that.
To me, an 'expedition' has to contain a significant degree of the 'unknown' and be self supported. Going into places that are remote and not previously documented in great detail.
IMHO the term is over-used these days and to most,just became synonymous with any long trip when it should mean something greater.

 

[lomcevak]

IMHO the term is over-used these days and to most,just became synonymous with any long trip when it should mean something greater.

Kind of like how the word "epic" is way over-misused (like my neologism?) these days.

 

[Astoriadave]

The labeling game is one you can play endlessly, yet I agree I see the label "expedition" used very loosely nowadays. Perhaps partly due to the explosion of "reality" programming on TV/cable.

Eric Shipton's exploits were expeditions. Mine are all trips. Some are multiday adventures, but none require the degree of risk or danger I think of when I hear "expedition."

As challenging as it was, I don't think Freda Hoffmeister's circuit of Australia was an expedition. Was McAuley's attempt to reach NZ an expedition? I think maybe so. So does whoever wrote the copy for this Wikipedia squib on Andrew's effort: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_McAuley

PS: wiki on Shipton: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Shipton

 

[kayakwriter]

When does a "trip" become an "expedition"? Does paddling around Vancouver Island qualify as an "expedition"?

When you're hoping to get someone to sponsor your vacation, if some of the letters to my outdoor retailer employer are anything to go by

 

[Ken B]

But 'Expedition' sounds so much more SEXY!

I think what rider said makes sense to me:
"To me, an 'expedition' has to contain a significant degree of the 'unknown' and be self supported. Going into places that are remote..."
I would add that 'Expedition' also relates to some paddling distance that has to be covered in the remote area.

 

[redguy]

Depends on your perspective: what may be a routine trip for some, could be an expedition for others, depending on your level of experience.

 

[ken_vandeburgt]

The deathly dry dictionary definition:

A journey, march or voyage for a definate purpose. F&W

I think that lets the air out of kayak trips qualifying as expeditions.

To kayak and to have a sense of purpose.... Lets not and say we did.

 

[Dan_Millsip]

Ken, your dictionary definitely needs a spell checker.

I think that lets the air out of kayak trips qualifying as expeditions.

To kayak and to have a sense of purpose.... Lets not and say we did.

I don't see how your definition excluded kayaks. You can certainly kayak with a "purpose" -- even if it's just to get from one location to another, it's a purpose. The dictionary definition is quite ambiguous and further creates confusion by using the ambiguous word "purpose".


From dictionary.com:

Expedition

–noun
1.
an excursion, journey, or voyage made for some specific purpose, as of war or exploration.
2.
the group of persons, ships, etc., engaged in such an activity: a large expedition of scientists and military personnel.
3.
promptness or speed in accomplishing something: He worked with great expedition.


I don't think the dictionary definition is very helpful.

*****

 

[ken_vandeburgt]

Ken, your dictionary definitely needs a spell checker.

Thanks. But not my dictionary's fault; mine. I'll go stand in the corner for a while.

Last time I read of a group of kayakers with a specific purpose that would qualify as an expedition it was the Russian America Company herding 300 Aleutian kayakers south as far as California for the purpose of hunting sea otters.

 

[VanIslePaddler]

I'll go stand in the corner for a while.

Not for too long... we'd all miss you!

 

[Astoriadave]

This set of exchanges about whether a "purpose" must be enjoined for a "trip" to become an "expedition" illustrates that a good bit of the difference is just labelling and perhaps a purpose could be many different things, depending on the context.

And, I think modern use of "expedition" to encompass paddling trips of danger and difficulty is somewhat more jocular than serious. As in, "We took our expedition off to Dead Wild Pig Island and then down the Columbia River, visiting the unkempt natives at the Duck Inn in Skamokawa, en route to the vicissitudes of the log-encrusted beach at Jim Crow Point, where Lewis and Clark encamped briefly in 1805."

Oh, wait, I guess Lewis and Clark were really on an expedition!

L and C: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis_and_ ... on#Journey

 

[Rrdstarr]

When does a "trip" become an "expedition"? Does paddling around Vancouver Island qualify as an "expedition"?

When you're hoping to get someone to sponsor your vacation, if some of the letters to my outdoor retailer employer are anything to go by

Christopher Columbus I think would qualify as an Expedition.

I could probably call my walk in Southern Chile into Tierra Del Fuego an Expedition. 90 days, I had a compass and a decent map, bedroll, and my trusty 45.

 

[Reg Lake]

Good question and some fun replies. I tend to use "Trips" for most descriptions, "Explorations" for checking out the unknown, and have used the term "Expedition" when sponsors were involved. So I can align fairly close to Riders reply.

Now the word "Adventure" is one that I avoid. I think adventure is usually incompetence, so though I have experienced it, I usually try to avoid it. I prefer to have "worthy goals accomplished uneventfully", in the process of that I have crossed the line into adventure and misadventure.

Reg Lake

 

[ken_vandeburgt]

Does paddling around Vancouver Island qualify as an "expedition"?

No, paddling around Vancouver does not qualify as an expedition. When you are finished you are exactly where you were when you started. Where is the purpose in that?

Paddling around Vancouver Island is about attaining a personal goal; a brass ring with bragging rights maybe. Seems to me there should be a greater flavour of adventure before it becomes an expedition.

Now the word "Adventure" is one that I avoid. I think adventure is usually incompetence,

Yeah, how about an expedition is an adventure undertaken as a crusade of amateurs where the outcome is uncertain.

I believe that this nation should commit itself to achieving the goal, before this decade is out, of landing a man on the moon and returning him safely to the earth. JFK

Now that was an expedition!

 

[Dan_Millsip]

Does paddling around Vancouver Island qualify as an "expedition"?

No, paddling around Vancouver does not qualify as an expedition. When you are finished you are exactly where you were when you started. Where is the purpose in that?

Well, there certainly can be purpose in it. What kind of purpose do you think one needs to qualify their trip to be an expedition? Why can't it start and end at the same location?

Paddling around Vancouver Island is about attaining a personal goal; a brass ring with bragging rights maybe. Seems to me there should be a greater flavour of adventure before it becomes an expedition.

Yup, I can agree with this.

I believe that this nation should commit itself to achieving the goal, before this decade is out, of landing a man on the moon and returning him safely to the earth. JFK

Now that was an expedition!

OK. So a few guys get into a spaceship on earth, go to the moon, play some golf, and return to earth. See my question above.

*****

 

[Dan_Millsip]

As challenging as it was, I don't think Freda Hoffmeister's circuit of Australia was an expedition. Was McAuley's attempt to reach NZ an expedition? I think maybe so.

You're setting the bar pretty high Dave. Paddle around a continent the size of Australia and it's not an expedition?!? Ha. I think if Freya wants to call her circumnavigation an expedition that she can. I certainly wouldn't argue with her. :lol:

I'm with you on that one actually, since she wasn't the first to do it. Since Australia was previously circumnavigated by Paul Caffin, and since he was the first to do so, I suspect he might be able to refer to it as an expedition?

What makes McAuley's trip count as an expedition?

So what about Freya's upcoming (yes, she announced it a few minutes ago) circumnavigation around South America? Does this count as an expedition since no one has done it before?

Enquiring minds want to know.

*****

 

[Rrdstarr]

If Freya did it unsupported that would be an expedition.

When I took my "jaunt" down through Chile and Argentina I was doing some serious soul searching. I was contemplating leaving Special Forces and returning to a civilian life of peaceful existence. It took two more leaves of absence to remove from a job I couldn't do anymore. I was walking till I could come to grips with leaving the Army or returning to that life, so I guess it wouldn't be classified as an "expedition".

 

[Astoriadave]

Dan wrote: You're setting the bar pretty high Dave. Paddle around a continent the size of Australia and it's not an expedition?!? Ha. I think if Freya wants to call her circumnavigation an expedition that she can. I certainly wouldn't argue with her.

Not arguing with Freya about anything -- she'd beat me up!

Yeah, I do set the bar pretty high in this labelling game. The prime component missing in most circumnavigations nowadays is "the unknown." That's why I regard Eric Shipton's endeavors (see link I posted earlier) as prime examples of expeditions -- they were explorations into areas and regions where there was great uncertainty about what they would find. Ditto for the moon landing, despite the heavy technology assist.

Another element which should be present is the complete lack of access to an easy rescue. Shipton, Franklin, Lewis and Clark: what, they did all that without a satphone or an EPIRB? Were they crazy? Maybe. Dedicated and committed, yes. Courageous, no doubt.

BTW, I don't buy the business that a circumnavigation is out because you "don't get anywhere." The process of making the journey is the fabric of an expedition, not whether you start and finish in the same spot.

 

[AM]

Dave, this summer I read both Tilman's and Shipton's respective accounts of their Nanda Devi explorations. Amazing stuff, very well written. It seems that of all the hardships they endured, the loss of their tea supply in a crevasse was the worst, nearly derailing the whole expedition. Ah, to be a gentleman-explorer! :?